Forum: Politika Topic: WikiLeaks: Što kažu Ameri o Kosorici? --------------------------------------------- chager: Dok cijeli svijet strepi, politički najviše, kakve ocjene su im američki veleposlanici dali, jesu li "prošli" na ispitu lojalnosti, hoće li jednog dana moći računati na mjesto predavača na nekom od sveučilišta, naša premijerka uopće nije zabrinuta. Zapravo, ona je toliko nasmijana da bi čovjek mogao zaključiti dvije stvari: ili nema pojma, ili sve zna. Ako je Merkel proglašena hladnom i nesposobnom, ako je Putin razmetljivac, baš me zanima kakvim epitetima počastiše Jacu. Eto prilike da i prije nego što procuri sami dadete neki slobodan doprinos nacionalnoj sigurnosti Osječanin: kažu da je Sosa..pa sad ti vidi... Leteci mungos: Sto se tice Kosorice, vjerojatno ce napisati je zbunjena, izgubljena, ali da ostavlja dojam kao da zeli napraviti dobro, ili sve sto joj se kaze. Ako joj budu davali nadimak, on bi mogao biti "submissive chicken". Ako su bolje upuceni, napisat ce i da je u Hrvatskoj u tijeku rat HDZ klanova. Bas skinuo trenutno dostupne depese, ali nema nista... par puta se spominje Croatia, ali o tome se vec pisalo - uglavnom vezano za prosirenje. Cekamo sljedeci kontingent dokumenata... ;-) Trenutno dostupno: http://88.80.13.160/torrent/cablegate/cablegate-201011301901.7z.torrent Are all the embassy cables being released at once? No. Instead of publishing the documents all at once, the organisation will be releasing the embassy files in stages. Why not release everything now? The embassy cables will be released in stages over the next few months. The subject matter of these cables is of such importance, and the geographical spread so broad, that to do otherwise would not do this material justice. We owe it to the people who entrusted us with the documents to ensure that there is time for them to be written about, commented on and discussed widely in public, something that is impossible if hundreds of thousands of documents are released at once. We will therefore be releasing the documents gradually over the coming weeks and months. mali od čače: kazu da dobro divani engleški..najglavnija tajna mali_ivica: chager je napisao/la : Dok cijeli svijet strepi, politički najviše, kakve ocjene su im američki veleposlanici dali, jesu li "prošli" na ispitu lojalnosti, hoće li jednog dana moći računati na mjesto predavača na nekom od sveučilišta, naša premijerka uopće nije zabrinuta. Zapravo, ona je toliko nasmijana da bi čovjek mogao zaključiti dvije stvari: ili nema pojma, ili sve zna. Kao da smo mi njima neki faktor da bi se sad tu trebalo nešto razmišljat! I šta sad da su napisali da je glupača i neznam ti ja šta?! Hoćemo se možda naljutit na njih i reči im da se više s njima nedružimo?! RLOL mariox: Ovo s wikileaksom me podsjeća na neku sapunicu, ovaj predsjednik je sebičan, ovaj ima 13 ljubavnica itd., dajte otkrijte neku vrijednu informaciju, kao sada se svi čude što diplomati pišu jedni o drugima, pa i ono su ljudi od krvi i mesa... A što i da napišu o našoj jadnoj jaci, da se ni kriva ni dužna našla na najodgovornijem mjestu u državi i a taj posao jako loše obavlja- eto jedino to, a i sto bi se moglo primjeniti i na svu našu političku "elitu"- hrpa mediokriteta i lopova... -nella-: Dam se kladit da veliki broj amerikanaca ni ne zna da postoji Hrvatska, ma dam se kladit da ih ima koji ne znaju da postoji Europski kontinent, a ne Kosorica... A oni koji znaju za Kosoricu, što nama znači njihovo mišljenje ??? Jesu oni nas pitali što mi mislimo o predsjedniku Bushu i njegovim aferama... ? Nama ništa ne znači ni naše mišljenje, a kamoli američko. Leteci mungos: -nella- je napisao/la: Nama ništa ne znači ni naše mišljenje, a kamoli američko. Autor teme vjerojatno nije govorio o misljenju obicnog puka, vec diplomacije, jer WikiLeaks (a, o njima je rijec) donosi sadrzaj diplomatskih depesha. Bilo bi tuzno, a i vrlo nevjerojatno,kad npr. veleposlanik ne bi znao u kojoj drzavi obavlja diplomatsku misiju. -nella-: Leteci mungos je napisao/la : Bilo bi tuzno, a i vrlo nevjerojatno,kad npr. veleposlanik ne bi znao u kojoj drzavi obavlja diplomatsku misiju. Ja mislim da je to vjerojatnije nego što ti misliš.RLOL Anyway, što nas briga što misle i diplomati i puk. Sleepwalker: Australske novine objavile Assangeovo pismo: Ne ubijajte glasnika. maniche: očekivale su se neke bombastične informacije a dobili smo hrpetinu birtijskih spika. sad bi trebalo ispasti da se na nekoj visokoj razini državnici uopće ne rade pizdarije nego ekipa dane provodi u tračanju...eto čak su jadni ameri za vrijeme domovinskog rata najviše bili zabrinuti za ljudska prava..joj dođe mi da plačem. ukoliko se ne objave neke prave stvari, i dalje ću smatrat da je ovo dirigirano iz politike kako bi se stvorio privid da još uvijek postoji neka medijska sloboda..a zapravo se sve što ide u eter filtrira i cenzurira na veliko. Leteci mungos: @maniche, a sto se moglo ocekivati!? Radi se o diplomatkim notama (depeshama), odnosno izvjestajima koja veleposlanstva salju u maticnu zemlju. Nista posebno tajno. Naravno da u takvim izvjestajima nece biti biti podataka do kojih su dosle tajne sluzbe i sl. Svejedno, ove note otkrivaju (opet, nista neocekivano) pravu prirodu odnosu prema nekim drzavama i sredinama, ogoljenu od plasta zvanog "diplomacija". Chule: Citat: 4. (S) In June 2007, we alerted the FRG that xxxxxxxxxxxx - in a further attempt to evade German export controls - in mid-March 2007 suggested to xxxxxxxxxxxx that a thermal shock chamber be shipped to Iran using Croatian, Romanian or Russian intermediaries (Ref M). We subsequently advised German officials that in late May 2007, the Croatian firm xxxxxxxxxxxx made an offer to xxxxxxxxxxxx - on behalf of xxxxxxxxxxxx - for the sale of a shock chamber (Ref O). ovo je vjerovatno najzanimljiviji leak u kojemu se spominje Croatia, ono sto se pojavilo na Jutarnjem je ili totalno izmišljeno ili imaju neki izvor mimo sluzbene wikileaks stranice maniche: Leteci mungos je napisao/la : Svejedno, ove note otkrivaju (opet, nista neocekivano) pravu prirodu odnosu prema nekim drzavama i sredinama, ogoljenu od plasta zvanog "diplomacija". kao što kažeš,ništa neočekivano...iako me ništa nije iznenadilo, svakako je bilo zanimljivo vidjeti način na koji se vodi komunikacija i kakvim se stvarima bave diplomati. ako im je za vjerovati, nije ta komunikacija toliko bezazlena...tvrde da imaju prave "informacijske bombe" u posjedu..pa bumo vidjeli. Leteci mungos: @chule, i ja sam primjetio da neki nasi mediji pise u stvarima koje nisam uspio naci u dosad izdanim notama. Ili dosta imaju bolje informirane i opskrbljene izvore, ili je vecina napisanog - cista izmisljotina, poput onih karakternih crta politicara. Leteci mungos: Slucaj Podravka... nista sto nismo znali... Skriveno:  Friday, 12 February 2010, 11:51 C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 ZAGREB 000097 SIPDIS STATE FOR EUR/SCE AND INL/AAE, VIENNA FOR FBI/CALDWELL EO 12958 DECL: 01/01/2020 TAGS PREL;PGOV;KCOR;HU;HR SUBJECT: PODRAVKA CORRUPTION CASE TIED TO XXXXXXXXXXXX AND XXXXXXXXXXXX DEAL REF: A. ZAGREB 0053 B. ZIMMER-CALDWELL E-MAILS Classified By: Political Officer Chris Zimmer for Reasons 1.4 (b) and ( d) 1. (C) SUMMARY: The investigation of former Deputy Prime Minister Damir Polancec and the Podravka food company (which is 26 percent state-owned) is uncovering a growing scandal and has now tied Podravka's financing schemes to the XXXXXXXXXXXX. The majority of Podravka's board are under arrest. Prosecutors are seeking information from XXXXXXXXXXXX, who provided XXXXXXXXXXXX to the Podravka management board. Prosecutors believeXXXXXXXXXXXX was then used in the board's scheme to take over the company, which led to subsequent illegal actions to cover up their activities and financial losses. Media are beginning to speculate on the role of former Prime Minister Ivo Sanader in the affair. End Summary. 2. (C) Croatia's Chief State Prosecutor Mladen Bajic met with RSO and Poloff on February 2 to outline the prosecutor's "Operation Spice" investigation into Podravka and former Deputy Prime Minister Polancec. Bajic presented two documents. The first was an unsigned financing agreement between XXXXXXXXXXXX and Podravka from November 2006. The second was a completed financing agreement between a company called XXXXXXXXXXXX and from XXXXXXXXXXXX which was secured by Podravka shares. Bajic said that under the equity acquisition financing agreement, XXXXXXXXXXXX approximately 34 million euro (with an additional 39 million euro available in a second tranche) for purchase of nearly 600,000 ordinary shares of Podravka. XXXXXXXXXXXX Bajic said Podravka's management, under a plan spearheaded by Polancec, had arranged the deal in order to use the proceeds to purchase a controlling interest in the company. (NOTE: Four members of Podravka's former management board are currently in detention. The board, which is appointed by parliament, was composed of members supported by various parties within the ruling coalition. End Note.) XXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXXX replaced an unnamed "Podravka Management Approved Holding Company" as the borrower of record. 3. (C) Prosecutors from the Office of Suppression of Corruption and Organized Crime (USKOK) are interested in learning the details of XXXXXXXXXXXX, including who approached XXXXXXXXXXXX (NOTE: Post forwarded copies of the XXXXXXXXXXXXagreements to the FBI office in Vienna on February 8. End Note.) Bajic told EmbOffs that the XXXXXXXXXXXX agreement is legal -- his interest is in learning who was involved on the Croatian side. According to prosecutors, the criminal aspects of the deal involveXXXXXXXXXXXX and actions taken by Polancec and others in order to XXXXXXXXXXXX. 4. (C) Due to the economic crisis, the value of Podravka shares fell more than 50 percent, from approximately 600 kuna (120 USD) per share XXXXXXXXXXXX. According to prosecutors, as the value decreased, Podravka management, XXXXXXXXXXXX had to meet margin calls for the shortfall. In one scheme to increase Podravka's revenues, at least on paper, Bajic said the management engaged in money laundering by funneling Podravka money XXXXXXXXXXXX in order to pay fraudulent contracts with Podravka. 5. (C) While Polancec's scheme at Podravka was unraveling, he was simultaneously involved in negotiations with XXXXXXXXXXXX END NOTE.) Hungarian prosecutors forwarded to Bajic their report on an investigation of XXXXXXXXXXXX in the Podravka deal. According to the report, when the XXXXXXXXXXXX of the equity agreement dropped to 35 percent in December 2008, it triggered an early termination agreement. Hungarian prosecutors say that at this point, Deputy Prime Minister Polancec, who was also Minister of Economy and deeply involved in the XXXXXXXXXXXX negotiations, approached XXXXXXXXXXXX and asked XXXXXXXXXXXX to be a consultant to Podravka. As a result of these consultations, XXXXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXXXX for his failed schemes at Podravka. 6. (C) Press reports on the XXXXXXXXXXXX connection to the Podravka case within the past week have also speculated on the possible involvement of former Prime Minister Ivo Sanader. Sanader was closely involved in XXXXXXXXXXXX negotiations and it would have been difficult for Polancec to have taken some of the actions prosecutors are alleging he did in the XXXXXXXXXXXX talks without Sanader's knowledge. Bajic declined to tell us on February 2 whether Sanader is a target of this investigation, but he has told us on previous occasions that his office is investigating the former PM in several cases. 7. (C) Bajic has said privately that Podravka could be Croatia's Enron, a game-changing case in the GoC's efforts to tackle corruption, particularly if he can obtain sufficient evidence that Polancec intentionally undersold XXXXXXXXXXXX. Cooperation with Hungarian prosecutors continues to improve. Bajic said he was very impressed with the evidence and analysis the Hungarians provided on the XXXXXXXXXXXX connection. 8. (C) COMMENT: The Podravka case is one of the major cases that the EU is watching to determine Croatia's commitment to fighting corruption. The results to date are positive. The willingness and ability of USKOK to investigate an incumbent Deputy Prime Minister, almost immediately after suspicions were raised, shows that, as Prime Minister Kosor has contended, there may no longer be "untouchables" in Croatia. Post will continue to work with the FBI in order to facilitate USKOK's contact with XXXXXXXXXXXX. END COMMENT. FOLEY Leteci mungos: Malo o radu USKOK-a Hm, zanimljivo kako Mladen Bajic brifira veleposlanika SAD-a. Koga li je jos brifirao? Ne povecava li to rizik curenja informacija?! Skriveno:  Friday, 30 October 2009, 15:38 C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 ZAGREB 000644 SIPDIS STATE PASS EUR/SCE EO 12958 DECL: 10/27/2019 TAGS PGOV, PREL, KCOR, HR SUBJECT: PM KOSOR STRENGTHENING POLITICAL WILL TO FIGHT CORRUPTION; DEPUTY PM POLANCEC RESIGNS REF: ZAGREB 633 Classified By: Political Officer Chris Zimmer for reasons 1.4 (b) and ( d). 1. (C) SUMMARY: Since Jadranka Kosor took over as Prime Minister in July following Ivo Sanader's sudden resignation, she has brought to her office what appears to be a new attitude toward allegedly corrupt party members that is strengthening the political will to fight corruption at all levels in the Croatian government and economy. While no convictions have occurred since she took office, a steady stream of investigations and indictments has been coming out of the Ministry of Interior and the State Prosecutor's Offices. Senior government officials have told us that Kosor has said she will not protect corrupt members of the party out of loyalty or to maintain influence, as Sanader did. On October 30, Deputy PM and Economics Minister Damir Polancec resigned over allegations of involvement in a scandal at a large agri-business firm. END SUMMARY. 2. (C) For the past three years, the Croatian State Prosecutor's Office for the Suppression of Organized Crime and Corruption (USKOK) has been ratcheting up its activity in corruption cases. Until this year, however, its cases had involved mid-level bureaucrats in services such as the land registry, or health and education systems. Few indictees could be described as being politically-well connected. Since this summer, however, a series of cases have been playing out in both the media and the police and prosecutors' offices. These cases have begun to reach politically-connected individuals. Cases under investigation have already led to significant changes in management, and detention of some key players, at the state-owned electric company HEP, and the 25-percent state-owned food producer Podravka. In another case, a long-awaited investigation of a military procurement from 2004 in involving former Defense (and later Interior) Minister Berislav Roncevic was launched following Sanader's July resignation, with indictments issued against Roncevic and a close aide on October 28 (reftel). State Prosecutors have confided to us that they have a number of other cases either under indictment or active investigation that could also implicate high-level political figures. XXXXXXXXXXXX 3. (C) All of these cases have reportedly created strains within the ruling HDZ party, with senior party members arguing that the government should not rush to judgment, and that Kosor was being too quick to seek dismissal of those tainted by various allegations. The Prodravka case presents the latest challenge in this regard. Minister of Economy (and Deputy Prime Minister) Damir Polancec is a former Podravka executive and is suspected of participation in the alleged scheme by which the management board was using embezzled funds to buy a controlling interest in the company. Six managers were arrested last week for their roles in the scheme, but Polancec has not been publicly named by investigators as a suspect. Opposition parties and the media called vociferously for Polancec's resignation, and the leader of a junior partner in the ruling coalition publicly stated that his party, the Independent Serb Democratic Party (SDSS), would not support Polancec if parliament voted on a motion for his dismissal. Polancec suddenly resigned his position today (October 30). 4. (C) Many well-informed sources have commented in particular on the shift in attitudes toward corruption between Kosor and her predecessor, Ivo Sanader. MFA State Secretary Davor Bozinovic told the Ambassador on October 26 that Kosor potentially is commencing an historic shift in governance in Croatia. He and others have noted that President Mesic is quietly supporting Kosor, his erstwhile presidential opponent, against the HDZ old guard. Bozinovic regretted that the opposition is not supporting her anti-corruption efforts, which could spare them a difficult task when they return to power. 5. (C) Chamber of Commerce President Nadan Vidosevic, a long-time HDZ member and now independent candidate for president of Croatia, told the Ambassador on October 27 that he also saw a change in approach. He claimed Sanader and Kosor had recently argued over Kosor's approach to the corruption investigations. Kosor insisted that Chief State Prosecutor Bajic be allowed to pursue all leads, while Sanader saw this as a threat to him and other party cronies. ZAGREB 00000644 002 OF 002 (NOTE: Bajic himself has told the Ambassador that he has the authority to investigate anybody as evidence dictates, and that he would pursue an investigation against Polancec in the Podravka case. END NOTE.) A media source recently alleged to us that Kosor had directly threatened Sanader with potential legal action. Vidosovic claimed Polancec told him he would finger Sanader if he were indicted. 6. (C) Luka Madjeric, Head of the Government's Office for Human Rights and a former assistant to Kosor, told Poloff that Kosor rose quietly through the ranks of the HDZ. Therefore, he said, she does not have as many political IOUs, nor is she complicit in the scandals now plaguing other party members. This allows her to address corruption issues in a more straightforward manner than her predecessor. Since she does not have to worry about being personally implicated in the scandals, she is more willing than Sanader was to allow prosecutors and police to pursue leads that may implicate top party officials. 7. (SBU) The new political will to target corruption coincides with improved procedures for investigating and prosecuting cases, many of which have been designed and advocated for under US and other donors' assistance programs. In September, the national police officially opened their own Office for the Suppression of Corruption and Organized Crime (PN-USKOK), which serves as a partner to the prosecutor's USKOK division. Both the police and prosecutor USKOKs have offices in the four largest cities, Zagreb, Split, Rijeka, and Osijek, and jurisdiction for investigating organized crime and corruption cases. Courts in these four cities also have specialized USKOK courts, created in early 2009, with cleared panels of experienced judges specially trained to hear these complex criminal cases. And, as of July 1, Croatia's new Law on Criminal Procedure granted USKOK prosecutors many of the functions previously held by investigative judges. Prosecutors can now question suspects and witnesses without going through lengthy procedures in the courts. Bajic has told us that these changes have greatly increased the pace of investigations and helped minimize leaks and the potential for witness tampering. 8. (C) COMMENT: Kosor's willingness to confront corruption appears genuine. But it almost certainly includes some elements of political calculation. First, the strategy of simply denying, ignoring or stiff-arming corruption investigations was growing increasingly hard to sustain, especially given USKOK's increasing effectiveness. Trying to de-fang USKOK, as some HDZ hard-liners have reportedly suggested, would have met with strong international condemnation and damaged Croatia's EU aspirations. Second, Kosor, who rose to the top of the party without a mandate from the voters and with less long-standing ties than many of the party's barons, may well be quite happy to see intra-party rivals weakened by more aggressive and free-ranging investigations into corruption. Finally, given the HDZ's current unpopularity, Kosor may simply have calculated that she had little to lose, and that it was best to start right away in hopes of changing the HDZ's public image before the next elections, which must be held by fall 2011 but could come as early as spring 2010 if the governing coalition fractured. So, while the developments of the past few months signal progress, it is premature to declare victory in the fight against corruption in Croatia. No "big fish" convictions have yet been secured. And Kosor may yet find that the strains created by anti-corruption cases may complicate dealing with challenges such as the economic crisis and completing the requirements for EU accession. Nonetheless, this is potentially the beginning of a watershed moment in Croatia, made possible by an unexpected leader whose party cannot at the moment afford to disperse with her. END COMMENT. FOLEY Leteci mungos: Sharon: Sve u svemu, beskorisni opisi nalik na tračeve. Diplomati doista troše novce poreznih obveznika za ovakve bedastoće?! Sad bi me ovakva prijepiska zanimala retro, recimo u vrijeme ratova 90-tih u HR i BiH. Recimo, dok se moglo nešto učiniti... Jesu li se i tada tako lijepo zabavljali? A tek onaj cirkus s optužbama Assangeu za silovanje... Opisi silovanja objavljeni u medijima... Prema švedskim zakonima - definicija silovanja... Koma! Brick Top: Meni jedan od najzanimljivijih "leaksova" ili kako se već nazivaju je ovaj: SAD pritisnuo Britance da nam odblokiraju pregovore Mislim, nije da se to nije znalo, ali će se valjda sad za sva vremena začepiti usta onima koji smatraju da su nam Britanci, Nizozemci i slični narodi, prijatelji. Dakle, nikad Ante Gotovina, topnički dnevnici, ZERP, Piranski zaljev, kurac - palac, nisu bili problem našem pristupu u EU. To je bilo najobičnije mazanje očiju. I tko je htio vidit, vidio je to od samog početka. Kao i što neki sada vide čiji je Josipović igrač (a i ne samo on). Leteci mungos: Od ljeta ove godine pa sve do sada, Švedska televizija pratila je rad tajnovite aktivističke mreže Wikileaks i njenog predvodnika Juliana Assangea. Novinari Jesper Huor i Bosse Lindquist putovali su u ključne zamlje u kojima Wikileaks djeluje i snimali razgovore s vodećim članovima. Je li Wikileaks danas jači nego ikada ili su ih slomili napori američke vlade? WikiLeaks - film [4 dijela] morgan: jeste znali ovaj podatak o silovanjima u Švedskoj?